Mr. Liebl,
I have been reading extensively on collagen induction, and am excited to learn about such a compelling product. Having endured 4 painful Fraxel treatments with limited results (and horrid swelling), I am very much looking forward to experiencing the results you are able to achieve.
I do have one question that remains unanswered, and that pertains to needle length. I am hoping you can enlighten me in this respect.
In the abstract “STIMULATION OF CELL GROWTH” it stated that collagen fibers were not produced deeper than 0.5 to 0.6mm even though 1.5mm needles were used for penetration (quote listed below).
Does this mean that a Dermaroller with a needle length of LESS than 1.5mm can produce these same results? If yes, what is the shortest needle than can effectively impact moderate wrinkles, pigmentation issues, and other anti-aging concerns? (I do understand that both needle length and eletrical charge may come into play regarding results)
Thank you for providing an alternative to lasers, etc….your work is very much appreciated. I look forward to your reply.
Bethany
Quote from Abstract:
The theory expounded by some experts ‘the longer the needle the better’, is not supported by scientific evidence! After evaluation of all of the biopsies in Dr Schwarz’s study, new collagen fibers were only found close to the corium and not deeper than 0.5 to 0.6 mm. Although the Dermaroller model MF8 has 1.5 mm long needles, no significant new collagen and elastin formation could be found in the sub-dermal tissue. It may be possible that longer needles may have a higher electrical potential, but needles longer than 1.5 mm increase the risk to damage nerves and vessels, and this again will result in haematomas and possible nerve paralysis.
Dear Bethany,
Thank you for contacting the Dermaroller BLOG with your question in respect of new collagen formation stimulated by Microneedling with the Dermaroller.
Although we already know a lot of the mechanism of action by needling the skin, we are still investing time and effort to find more answers. In the blind study of Dr. Schwarz only needles with 1.5 mm were used. We never made biopsies from skin treated with shorter needles. But we have proof that even shorter needles like such from the Home Care Dermaroller (0.2 mm) thickens the epidermis by 30 to 40% when used twice a week for about 2 to 3 month.
Why collagen and elastin fibers only form close to the corium, not deeper than 0,5 to 0.6 mm, can only be speculated. Our skin has about 200 nerve receptors per square centimeter in the upper layer of the dermis. They sense first any change (like injury) in the electrical field of skin cells and the extra cellular electrolyte. Skin cells react to this change be transmitting growth factors (TGF) that stimulate cell proliferations, i.e. fibroblasts.
As the injury (needle prick) comes from outside, from the top layer of the skin, fibroblasts most likely are directed toward the uppermost point of injury in order to close the penetration opening. Needle prick channels, not bigger than 0.1 mm in diameter close very quickly, and after 10 minutes they only have a seize of 0.03 mm, then they finally close completely. Properly tooled needles do NOT damage the skin like a cutting device or a laser would do. As fibroblasts do not have to REPAIR any damage after needling they transform directly into collagen fibers, but not into fiber bundles as it happens in a fibrotic tissue. They somehow integrate in the given collagen pattern that gives skin its elasticity.
It is very difficult to understand the difference of cell renewal by microneedling and procedures such as fractional laser devices that uses skin repair mechanisms (fibrosis). However, any heat beam above 48°C transforms protein into fibrosis, also known as scar tissue. With resurfacing CO2 lasers the skin is removed horizontally in order to force it to build up new tissue. Fractionated laser beams enter the skin vertically and the laser beam sets many fine scars in the dermis. The term “fractional” means: the skin has to be thermally punctured in fractions with healthy (not lasered) tissue in between the thermal punctures. The problem seems to be, that no one can tell in a follow-up session, which skin point was lasered before and which one not. Theoretically the same little scar can be hit several times and the results are below expectations. It is often reported that thermal skin treatments are painful. Also this is easy to understand, simply because burn wounds heal relatively slow and thermally melted nerve receptors obviously have a longer pain memory.
Let me summarize:
The skin reacts to Dermarolling by cell regeneration.
Skin reacts to thermal or any other ablative procedures with the body’s repair mechanism – fibrosis.
(For further information, please refer to the article of Christopher S. J. Dunkin et al.: Scarring Occurs at a Critical Depth of Skin Injury…, published 2007 by the American Society of Plastic Surgeons).
Best regards
Horst Liebl